Bethany Discussion Forums

Let me start by saying that we always pictured an open adoption - at least to some degree. However, we now feel like maybe we're meeting with DD's mom, T, too often. DD is only 3 months old and we're getting ready to meet with T for the 3rd time since relinguishment. It feels like too much to us and we're not sure if it's the healthiest thing for T either.

I'm really disappointed that the agency didn't have us sit down and work out how our openness would "look" before the baby was born. All that was said was at initial mtg where we were told T would like pictures which we had no problem with. The subject wasn't brought up again until we went to the agency 3 days after DD was born (after having her in our home for 2 days). We went to the agency to sign paperwork and we were told T wanted to see the baby every month for the first year. We hesitated with agreeing but T's caseworker made it sound like that would all change once T went back to school in the Fall (that was her opinion). In hindsight, we never should've agreed to it but the fact is we did.

Now we're wondering if this arrangement is healthy for any of us, but especially for T. Shouldn't she have time to grieve without seeing DD every month? Also, like I said we agreed to this arrangement for the first year. What happens after that? How/when do we bring up the future with T? The visits are very emotional for all of us but especially for T. It's as if she's having to relinguish DD every time we leave her. (The visits consist of us picking her up somewhere - not her house because of secrecy issues - and then we take her to a restraunt for lunch/dinner.)

I'd love to hear from other firstmoms and whether you think this is healthy for T. What, if anything, should we say to T? Should we talk to the agency? Again, we agreed to this so we don't want to go back on our word, however, we kindof feel like we were tricked into the agreement. (NOT by T but by the agency.) Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

For one, you probably were "tricked" into the agreement. Open adoptions are advertised to firstmoms as a win-win situation, like omg you can keep in contact if you want?!!

I just want to clarify, is once a month too much for *you* or do you think it is too much for *T*?? If you think it is too much for T, I would let her address that. If it's too much for you, talk to your caseworker.


I do not think you should mention any of this to Emi's first mom. She is probably hurting enough and if you want to lessen visits it might send the wrong message. I would bring it up with your caseworker, though. One thing that totally should happen is for her to draft an open adoption agreement. In Michigan, it is not legally binding but it gives a framework of what is expected when and from who. After T gets a draft done, she can edit it with her caseworker, give it to your adoption worker, and have you and your husband go over it and make changes, etc.

Once a month for the first year is not unheard of. If anything, they are quite common in open adoptions. I went to a birthparent support group and one other woman did the same thing, so that is what I did, too. And I also was supposed to go back to school when he was 14 months old, and make visits 4-6times/year but my plans have changed. We are still going to do 4-6 times/year. I know people on this forum have said that I have one of the most open adoptions they have ever heard of, but honestly.. IRL I know a lot of first moms who have monthly visits even up to age 2 1/2... one woman I know sees her baby every 2 weeks and texts the a-mom every other day.

One thing that was extremely important to me was seeing him every month. We do it usually on the 11th or around the 11th which he was born 10-11-08. I can track his milestones and see how much he has grown in one month (which is a lot!!)

i agree about trying to decide if it is more about you or *T*. I believe there is nothing to be ashamed of in admitting that it is to much for yourself because only you can know that. SHe will have to make her own decison about that. I would approach the subject with your caseworker first. In our adoption: we have gone from *A* wanting NO contact, to just pictures, to 1 meeting, to meeting every few months, to now her wanting no contact. Things change for them and I think you have to be open to that. We still pray that she will want contact again but that is up to her. We have let her know that she is welcome to request more contact at anytime.

Here's my advice:

- It's terrible that a clear open adoption agreement wasn't established before the birth. That was bad agency work. Both you and "T" were treated wrongly by them in this area.

- You can't possibly know what is best for "T". It's up to her to decide that the visits are detrimental to her. Just because she's emotional upon leaving doesn't mean that it's bad for her. Expressing and feeling emotion can be very healthy! And since DD is WAY too young to know the difference, it doesn't come at any cost.

- You absolutely MUST complete your agreement to meet every month. It would be clearly wrong of you to agree to something before TPR was signed, but go back on it now.

- The agency needs to assist you and "T" in developing an open adoption agreement for 1 year and after, NOW. You both need to sit down with a SW to outline your expectations, then you need to get together to discuss them. You need to get that in place ASAP.

- I think when making your continuing open adoption agreement that you need to keep in mind that you agreed to monthly visits before TPR was signed. You set a precedence there that would naturally lead "T" to believe that you were in agreement with having a pretty open adoption. If you weren't willing to have continuing visits, then you should have refused the match when this issue was brought up after only having DD 2 days. I think it would be reasonable for "T" to expect that you would continue to visit several times per year after the first year, if she wishes to do so.

I agree with everything Meg said.

I understand your heart, but it is not up to you to decide what is or is not too much for T. This is VERY fresh and VERY new, and your DD is very young. T is going to grieve no matter what-and it just is counter-productive for you to try to figure out what is best for her, on her behalf.

It is understandable that you feel once a month visits are a lot. But it really is a moot point now. You agreed to it before TPR, and to back out now would be immoral.

I agree that the agency did both you and T a disservice by not ironing out this agreement before they placed the baby in your home. However, that is neither T's fault, or your DD's fault. It should have been discussed fully before placement, and you should have had the opportunity to walk away if it was more than you were comfortable with. However, that is really a moot point now as well, except for the fact that if you adopt again, you may have a better idea of what to ask for in advance.

It is also very true that while the visits can definitely cut back after a year, you entered this adoption giving the impression that you would be very open. I think that several visits per year are a fair expectation based on your original agreement. I would begin working on this now.

Best wishes!

I agree with everything said above.

Your agency should have been on top of this. They really dropped the ball, but NOW is the time to address it with your SW.

T is going to be a complete mess nomatter if she sees E or not because that is the nature of relinquishment, especially just 3 months out. You can't be the judge of what is best or most healthy for her. You just have to follow through with what you have agreed to do. I'm sure it is uncomfortable for you to know that she grieves so heavily after visits, but honestly, she would probably be doing that anyway even if she just received pictures every month. You just wouldn't be seeing her grief. If she wasn't grieving and crying, THAT would be strange and unhealthy.

Surely this is very hard for you. But as was stated, this is what was agreed upon prior to TPR. The reality of adoption is that it IS VERY HARD for everyone. The aparents have to shoulder some of that burden, just as the natural moms and adoptees end up doing as well. It shouldn't have to be that way for the adoptees, but I digress... Whole different conversation.

Perhaps it WAS a little too much to expect visits to consist of you picking up T and going to lunch/dinner in a public place. Maybe a visit at the agency might have been a little better, as there are soooo many raw emotions at this point. I can't imagine trying to keep it together at a restaurant! I couldn't even get out of my pajamas until a couple months post-relinquishment. Would you want to suggest doing the visits somewhere that would be a little more private or somewhere at least that would take a little pressure off of all of you? Just a thought.

It's totally ok to reevaluate how things are going over time because that is how life and people are. We change and grow and go through different phases. But I would really encourage you to adhere to your original agreement even if it is a stretch for you. If you pull back, nomatter what the reason, that is only punishing T, and she has ZERO control over that decision. I cannot put into words how devastating that is to have a decision made about what you can/can't know or do regarding your child, especially when it is contrary to what was agreed upon before TPR. This happened to me very soon after TPR, and it has been a LONG road of forgiveness. The pain of that is excruciating even though I know my daughter's parents "thought" they were doing what was best at the time. It was too emotional for them, they said. They thought it was best for me to "move on with my life", and they felt that updates were unhealthy. Well, their decision helped them emotionally, but it has left me in a place I cannot describe for the last 14 years.

You can and definitely should sit down and iron out your expectations for after the first year, but just know that it is sooooo normal for T to be very emotional and to cry. It is probably very reassuring to her, though, to see E with you and to know she is so loved and well-cared for. T can grieve and still not regret her decision. You are seeing her immense love for her daughter. That is something that you can communicate to E as she grows and understands more.

I will pray that you will be able to have a really good conversation with your agency about the way things played out prior to TPR and what that has translated to now that you are living your open agreement. Perhaps you will enable them to see the importance of some change in how they handle openness agreements.

Not a first mom here but an Amom with open and closed relationships.

I personally think this is very healthy for all! Just because it's hard doesn't mean it isn't good. They may not be good for T, but that is for her to decide. Are they hard for you? I bet they are! These early visits are tough.

I think you may have been back into a corner on the visits - that wasn't fair to either of you. That was wrong of your agency!

I am glad you are willing to follow through no matter how hard it is. It's possible that she suddenly realized she wanted more after baby was born. We had that happen. We agreed to pictures/letters and one visit per bmom's request. Then is was one more visit. Then before we knew it - it was an open relationship. She didn't truly know what she wanted until she said goodbye to baby. Then she realized that she needed to see baby from time to time.

I agree that a restaurant isn't the place for a visit! Our restaurant visits were awkward and hard.

I don't agree about settling next year now. Personally, I wouldn't worry about next year right now especially if you are struggling with the visits or if she is struggling with them. It's not uncommon to make short term agreements. We personally only make short term agreements for visits. (Pictures and letters we agree for the long haul without question.) 3 years is our max agreement time frame with frequency of visits.

There is nothing wrong with waiting a few more months to discuss next year. I wouldn't start the discussion until at least 6 months. Then you can start talking about the first birthday. (I encourage you to have a bday celebration with her.) And then you can start having the talks about next year.

You and dh need to figure out what works for you first before any discussion happens. You need to know what you are comfortable with before opening that door or you will wind up in the same situation again next year with an agreement that isn't working. That is damaging to the relationship. I think it's situations like this that hurt b-parent and a-parent relationships and cause hard feelings.
The last thing you want to happen is for you to resent the relationship because you agreed to something you weren't ready for. It can happen!! That is why we don't do long term agreements - so no is let down. We renegotiate often. Give yourself time to decide what works for you before you enter into a discussion with T.

I know it's hard early on - the relationship is awkward and the visits take a lot emotionally and physically from a family! T is going to hurt and struggle no matter what visit or no visit she's going to grieve. Let her decide on whether they are helping or hurting.

Even though they are hard, knowing a b-parent is the greatest gift you can give your child. Nothing can replace knowing a b-parent.

Can I share...we have a child whose adoption is closed by the bmom's choice. It started out closed. But she regretted that. So we had visits arranged. We had some visits. After the first year, bmom disappeared. This child is older now. I can't tell you the nights dc has cried over bmom and not knowing her. Dc has so many questions and there are no answers. (Bmom has left the country, so there will be no answers.) It breaks my heart that dc is hurting over this and I can't do a thing. We write bmom, but I know bmom will never see those letters. (We send them to the agency.)

But what a treasure it is that we have photos of dc and bmom together. And we can tell that child so many things about bmom because we met her and saw her and took photos.

Even though it's hard now, treasure these visits because it's possible they will be the only ones you get with her. You don't know what tomorrow holds. You don't know how long she will stay involved. But no matter what happens the day will come when your dd asks questions about her bmom. If bmom is still involved and can answer those questions that will be a wonderful blessing. If she isn't, you can say to her well we had all these visit with her and you can talk about her. We have retold visit stories so many times!! Over and over - dc clings to those stories because it's all we have.

I am sorry this got long and more involved than you were looking for. I know this time is hard! There isn't a perfect way to proceed. Praying for you as you navigate this!!
Before you do anything pray with dh over it. God won't let you down.

As an amom with an open adoption, I will comment that we visited with L 4 times in the first 3 months, all prior to TPR, which took 12 weeks to happen (we are also in MI). However, all our visits happened either at our house or her parents, which I think was easier than at a restaurant would have been. We still see her about 2 times a year, which is down from the first couple of years. Our open adoption ebbs and flows with either a lot of communication or none at all. I've learned to just respect L's choices and let her know that our door is always open for her and her family.

Even though it is hard, I hope you will follow through with your commitment for the remainder of E's first year. Then you can figure out what you would like to do for the future.

Take care

Hope we didn't scare you away. Your fears are valid but there have been some incredibly wise points made, especially about going back on something agreed to before TPR.



I think your agency did fail you in not proving an open adoption agreement, and not telling you that openness can change. That is *insert agency name* for you **shakes fist!**

I am incredibly surprised that you discussed that you'd give pictures and no visits at the FIRST meeting. I honestly didn't know how open of adoption I wanted until weeks after he was placed, at which time he was 5 months old. I will admit that at my intial meeting the a-parents knew how hard visits would be and suggested a semi-open adoption with only pictures and letters which I am still a little angry and insulted about.

Thank you so much ladies!!! It's great to know that I can always turn here for support and advice. There's no one else in my life (besides my husband) that I can talk these things thru and I'm so thankful that I can find all of you here. I feel like I can pour out all my feelings here - good and bad - and get just what I need from you. (At least that has been my experience so far.)

We made an agreement and T is trusting us to follow through with that and we definately will - no matter how hard for us. I think part of the reason it's so hard for me is that I really got to know T during the 2 months before E was born and part of me wants to protect her. I'm so glad to hear from so many firstmoms. You're right - whether we're meeting every month or not, T will be in pain and there's nothing I can do to stop that. However, maybe these visits are what helps her get through all the other days?

So unless she decides otherwise we'll stay with monthly visits. I'm glad I never mentioned changing the schedule to her - even if I thought I was doing that to help her, that is NOT my place and it's not for me to decide. I think it would've been bad for our future relationship. (She doesn't know how the agency kindof "sprung" the monthly visits on us. And of course we did agree.)

I will definately talk to caseworker re: visits after 1st year. I keep thinking we should just be dealing with T because we do have this open relationship, however, maybe it would help to have caseworker guide us thru making an agreement for the future? I probably won't do this for a couple months though.

As for the meeting place, I never thought about a restaurant being hard. Our whole family goes (me, my husband, 7 year old DD and E) so I didn't really think of anywhere else. The agency just seems kindof cold plus it's 45 minutes-1 hour from T and we already have to go pick her up because she has no transportation. I guess if we went that route maybe the caseworker would pick her up and take her to the agency but that almost seems like a step backward for us. KWIM?

Anyway, thanks again ladies! I feel like I've just been counseled by a bunch of friends. Thanks!

I think you should totally contact your caseworker. And there should really be an open adoption agreement so that this topic doesn't come up every year. And just because it is a fully open adoption, it doesn't mean that you should deprive yourself from caseworker advice.

For some reason restaurant visits were not recommended to me because what if a waitor asks "aww what a cute baby, who's baby is it?" but I went out to dinner once with them and loved it. This weekend we are going to a mall and are going to hang out in the play area. I would really hate meeting at the agency... in fact, I don't even meet my caseworker at the agency anymore, we go out to lunch.

I think there are a few threads about what to do at a visit and there are a lot of ideas. I know you have T in your thoughts and want to protect her, which I think is great . Visits help me get by month to month even though they are hard!

Wow! It's a tough situation for all, and I agree with the other ladies that the agency really dropped the ball! It seems rushed and pressure on both parties to suddenly throw the visits at one another (one per month) at the last minute without time to think about the decision.

That said, you have to live up to your promises. What I have learned through a friend who placed her baby and through our own adoption situation is this: we (as the a-parents) cannot and SHOULD NOT try to control how the birth parent feels, reacts, needs, etc. That is not our job. My job is to raise my daughter in the ways I know is best and in the ways I promised E, her birth mother, and to follow through with what I have promised E regarding contact (which I do so happily). My job is not to try and control E, her actions, and even dangerously, and what I'm doing right now (shame on me!), sitting around imagining horrible things about E and what she might be going through. I realized just yesterday from an interesting conversation that yes, E is probably hurting, every day, and that stinks and my heart is always aching for her loss; however, E may also be finding and having good things in her life. Why am I spending too much of my energy (notice I didn't say some---b/c I think some is ok and healthy as I work all this out in my mind and heart---over and over) focusing on what MIGHT be with E? How is that healthy or helpful? I need to be a prayer warrior for E! Not a worrier! (As Jenni and Heather wisely advised)

So my suggestion is this---talk to the agency about what needs to happen from now on out (Meg had great ideas), tell them you think the way the last minute visits idea was handled wasn't fair to you or T (so let's get working on the future!), and keep your promise to keep visiting once a month. (I can imagine how hard that must be for you and T---but to cancel the visits after agreeing to them is surely the wrong choice as this is a crucial time to establish a steady, relationship w/ T. And think, it's not T's fault that the agency dropped the ball---even though T requested the visits. The agency should have done a better job!)

I asked the SW about how the open adoption agreement and she told me that the specifics would be worked out later...after the babies were born. She said that the first mother can't really know what she wants until after the babies are born. She doesn't know what her emotions will be like...no matter how much counseling she is getting until that day comes. We talked about general things at this point but not details. I told the parents that I am on the side of more visits rather than less visits but it will be up to them as to how much they want. That being said I don't really want to committ to monthly visits in the dead of winter in Wisconsin. I'd be happy to arrange visits that coincide with doctor visits since they will have at least two visits in the coldest months of the year.
There has to be a bit of reality mixed in with arranging visits...KWIM?